Confused about vaccine info (Discussion)

Bed - June 14, 2021

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Full disclosure: I’m not a conspiracy nut. I don’t buy into the conspiracies of the vaccine turning your body into a magnetic, injecting tracking metals into you, et cetera. I fully believe in getting vaccinated for diseases that spread easily and/or very negatively affect people, but I’m trying to figure out as much as I can about the COVID-19 vaccines before talking to the rest of my family about getting them (they’re not conspiracy nuts either, just hesitant like me).I’d post stuff like this on other social media platforms, but they’re usually ‘echo chamber’-y (Reddit being the worst example in my opinion).

I’ve been researching a lot about the vaccines, but I’ve been getting all kinds of conflicting information; misinformation, disinformation, lack of information, et cetera. Like, I hear about how the RNA vaccines cause prion diseases (which was proven false a lot, but my mind likes to research further and second guess a lot), or how the mRNA vaccines came out too quickly (even though it’s been said that the idea and concept has been studied for decades).Basically, I don’t exactly know what to believe anymore with what’s out there for public viewing. I’m not sure what’s right, and I’m not sure what’s wrong. I’m not scared or fearful anything like that, just really really confused and trying to make sense of it all.

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We will let this topic stay but make sure to keep politics and conspiracy theories out of this discussion. Thank you Bed for your disclosure at the beginning and your desire to shift through to the facts and make an informed decision.

 

I suggest reading The Code Breaker.  It is a great read that will explain how they can create mRNA products so quickly.  Also 60 Minutes did a piece on her.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/crispr-jennifer-doudna-walter-isaacson-the-code-breaker/

 

We will let this topic stay but make sure to keep politics and conspiracy theories out of this discussion. Thank you Bed for your disclosure at the beginning and your desire to shift through to the facts and make an informed decision.

 

Of course! I always like to go with the facts and not what I hear from a friend or my emotions on something. Also, I was only mentioning the conspiracy mumbojumbo in passing, but I get why that shouldn’t be allowed regardless.

 

There is indeed no evidence of them causing prion disease.

It’s unclear to me what exactly there is to make sense of.  We know pretty well what the side effects are (your mild temporary ones, plus one-in-a-million serious ones like anaphylaxis, atypical clotting, pericarditis).  We know they work really well to prevent COVID-19.  The majority of Americans have already had them, and so have well over a billion people around the world.

What is it that you’re confused about?  Maybe that will help people know how to help you.  🙂

 

I guess my confusion was mostly from how quickly the vaccine was put into mass production. Then again, like I mentioned, the study of mRNA vaccines seems to have been done over years if not decades. It also doesn’t really help that my family mentions about how they’re hesitant due to that quick rollout as well as the serious side effects (which like you said are rare but they still think about it happening to them).

I guess it might be the usual hesitancy lots of people have with something brand new coming out that (while having lots of research poured into its creation) hasn’t had a public testing (even though the vaccines did have tests done on them before becoming available). It honestly feels kinda hard to convince people otherwise.

 

When in doubt, read information from the Mayo Clinic. Here’s a primer on how the different vaccines work. For those who are concerned about the RNA in the mRNA vaccines, this article will definitely sort it out. It’s technical, but it’s correct. We have more than a year’s worth of safety data on over 1.5 billion people who have been vaccinated, and we can say for sure that these vaccines are many orders of magnitude safer than the disease itself. ~1/100 unvaccinated people could die from COVID (more if health systems are overwhelmed), and 20% or more of those infected will have serious health sequelae from the illness (like long-COVID or permanent organ damage). Perhaps 1/250,000 or fewer will have a serious vaccine reaction. Most of these reactions are treatable. The clotting and reports of myocarditis after vaccination are far less frequent than the clotting and myocarditis seen with the actual disease. This is not a flu-like illness that folks can easily recover from. It’s a frequently fatal, highly-contagious clotting disease that also causes multi-system organ damage and lung-scarring pneumonia. I would actively encourage everyone to get vaccinated as soon as possible–the Delta variant will take hold by fall and the fence-sitters could be in for a difficult end-of-year.

 

Agreed. As much as I’d love to convince my family to get it, they seem to be both hesitant and thinking that ‘Oh, we won’t get sick!’ even though nobody knows what the future will hold. The hesitancy mostly comes from the news talking a lot about people dying or getting very sick from the vaccine.

I think I’ll just go through with calling my local pharmacy on my own to see what vaccine(s) they have and how to go about setting up an appointment if need be.

 

Check out https://www.vaccines.gov/search/ . You put in your zipcode and it tells you which locations are offering it, and which vaccines they have in stock. Many of my local pharmacies have all three in stock. 

Then you have the decision on which one to get.

 

For some reason, when folks tell me they are hesitant to get vaccinated I think about seat belts in autos.  I remember folks saying they won’t wear one because maybe 1 in a million folks die because the seat belt kept them in the car as opposed to getting thrown thru a window.  You are much safer wearing seat belts but that doesn’t mean in very rare cases, that seat belt might cause death… or at least contribute to it.   I wear seat belts.  This vaccine is MUCH safer than taking the risk of getting infected.  Just because you recover easily from Covid doesn’t mean your body hasn’t been harmed in some way.  I am fully vaccinated and will take boosters when & if needed.

 

I wish I had a better answer than this here, but its basically what I was going to suggest in a different way.  Adding on in case alternate takes contribute., others have contributed for this specific instance but I thought I might add to the deeper issues in play.

I see two issues in play here:  Making a well informed decision and knowing what information to trust.  

Knowing what information to trust is hard to solve.  Google “epistemic crisis” but fair warning most recent examples are political so I won’t wade into it any deeper here.

On the “making a choice” front though, there is an easier more straight forward approach: Even “not making a choice” or “delaying a choice” is actually a choice you actively are making.  

By choosing to wait and research this more you have actively chosen not to avail yourself of a vaccination now and that choice carries risk. That is perhaps fine if you’re waiting a few days or a week or two, but at some point the risk of waiting to learn more potentially out weighs the risk of not acting decisively.  If your daily risk of exposure is low (you don’t interact with people and have no intension to start) you might be fine waiting – but if you’re going out in large crowds without other protective measures then perhaps the risk of not getting a vaccine is higher than getting one.  

The root of the original question is actually really interesting: what knowledge is trustworthy and how do you make the best choices?  Unfortunately, the practical answer is that everyone has to come up with their own guiding principles and ultimately take responsibility for their own actions (I say this not in any critical way, more of a tautological statement).

 

Actually, I think my hesitation might come from the vaccines being issued as an ’emergency use’ rather than whatever the usual process they go through. Which… well, of course it’ll be like that since we’re still in a freaking pandemic!!!

Regardless, I know I’ll have to get vaccinated eventually since I plan on getting a job that involves working with the public. Better I do it now before the fall when the Delta variant becomes the dominant one throughout the world!

 

It just shows how people differ.  You are hesitant because it is new & was developed quickly… I was thrilled that it got emergency use authorization & was developed quickly.  I’m 65 & overweight, meaning if I had gotten sick, odds were I’d have been hospitalized and possibly dead.  My wife & I traveled 6 hours, to the far end of the state, to get our first shot.  It was that important to us.

If you take the time to study mRNA & CRISPR, you will find out how the vaccine was developed so quickly.  This is not voodoo medicine but straight forward microbiology.  The book I referenced above gives the full history of research into mRNA and how the study of how simple bacteria have been able to fight off viruses for billions of years.  Basically all we have done is mimic what bacteria have been doing all along.  My degree is in Biology but it was not needed to understand the book. 

 

The process was expedited, but still thorough, actually better than the usual process, which isn’t very good. I think the pause of the AZ and JnJ vaccines was a mistake. It was based on very few cases of blood clots statistically speaking, and resulted in a lot of people refusing all the Covid vaccines, which contributed to more deaths than those which motivated the pause.

 

Takeaway: humans are terrible at assessing risk.  

 

As others have said, there are some really solid sources out there but there is also a lot of garbage.  I’ve been elbow deep in this, watched a lot of people die (slowly, painfully, and alone) and seen the healthcare system in this area on the verge of collapse.  I had misgivings about the new technology and the fast rollout, but when I was notified that I was eligible in mid-December I didn’t think twice about scheduling an appointment to get my first dose.  The risk of being a stethoscope-length away from 20 people a day with COVID prevented me from falling into my usual trap of overthinking things.

High vaccination rates among the elderly here have dramatically reduced our inpatient COVID census.  Now we are seeing a handful of people under 65 who are often very sick but didn’t think COVID was a big deal or thought they wouldn’t get it.  The reality is that it’s still spreading just as fast in groups with low vaccination and prior exposure rates, potentially faster and with more virulence as the new strains get a foothold here.  I’ve seen over and over again that people think they are safe since they don’t know anyone with COVID.  The way this spreads, frequently by the time you have one close contact with COVID, everyone you know will have it.

I’m not sure if that helps.  I don’t have much of a stomach for 99% of the online and news media discussion of COVID and vaccines, but from what little I have read, there is a dearth of opinions from people who really have up close experience with this. I guess that as someone who has, I wanted to let you know my side of it. 

 

While I am wary of vaccines in general, I think getting the Covid vaccine is an excellent idea, both from the standpoint of personal protection and community, by breaking the chain of transmission. I think the Pfizer vaccine is the best and well worth seeking out. It is extremely effective and has a low rate of adverse reactions lasting longer than a day or two. That being said, if you look at the details of VAERS reports, there HAVE been many serious or fatal reactions, but they are dwarfed by those caused by the disease. The mRNA vaccines do not alter your DNA. I didn’t believe the magnetism story, but tried putting a magnet on the injection site, and it fell to the ground. Fears of antibody-dependent enhancement have not been realized, and, in fact, the vaccine was specifically designed to prevent it from occurring. All ingredients of the vaccine are eliminated from the body within days or weeks. They have no preservatives like mercury or adjuvants like aluminum. Like all vaccines, they CAN shock your body into a damaging autoimmune response and hyper inflammatory conditions, but it is rare that these are long-lasting. 

I took two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. Neither one hurt at all, which surprised me. I took Benadryl once or twice a day starting three days before the vaccine to reduce any autoimmune reaction, and continued taking it for a couple of days afterward. I took baby aspirin to reduce the possibility of blood clots. I alternated Tylenol and Ibuprofen every three hours for a day afterwards to reduce inflammation, starting two hours after getting the vaccine, to allow the desired response to the vaccine to start unimpeded.

I had dizziness after the first dose, then severe vertigo and vomiting about ten hours after the vaccine, which worried me, but nothing further happened besides dizziness which lasted a few weeks after each dose, possibly because I have MS. But it eventually stopped, now I’m fine, and I’m glad I got it.

 

I had both doses of Pfizer, didn’t take any meds before or after and had no issues or pains.

 

I know most people don’t, but my suggestions were for those who are afraid (as I was) that they might have (as many people have had) autoimmune or hyper inflammatory reactions. I also took homeopathic Thuja 1M and oscillococcinum.

 

Thanks to this topic I went out yesterday and got my first shot from the pharmacy. Thank you Alisa Felix for the link on how to find places offering this service.

I went to the pharmacy, asked for the Johnson and Johnson because I only want one shot, but they didn’t have it available and only had Pfizer. So i’m glad you have found Pfizer to be the best one available Cia. 

I haven’t had any side effects from my first shot other than my arm just slightly hurts about as large of a quarter where they injected it. But it hasn’t brought me down at all and I still did a light workout yesterday and haven’t felt bad. I know everyone will be different, but that was my experience. My tetanus shot a few weeks ago was so much worse than this and I had a bruise for about two weeks.

 

Good for you Robert !  About a week or so after my 2nd Pfizer shot, a huge sense of relief came over me.  For so long I lived in fear that I would get infected.  I didn’t want to die alone & struggling to breath, like several folks I knew.

 

I’m glad you had a good experience! I had talked to my daughter many times about getting it: I said that the Indian variant was spreading quickly everywhere, including here, and was affecting even young people her age, 21, even killing them. On Wednesday she finally agreed, and I looked on Solvhealth.com to find a place offering Pfizer. I found that our supermarket, Schnucks, was, and was accepting walk-ins, so we went right away and she got it and had no reaction. I told her in five weeks she wouldn’t have to wear a mask anymore and she was happy about that. I read this morning that 99% of hospital admissions now are unvaxxed.

Congratulations! I think you made a good choice!

 

Thanks Redneck and Cia. Do either of you know if I will have any protection for the time period between the first and second shot? I’ll still wear a mask, but it would be a little comforting if there was some level of protection from just this first shot until I get my second. Just curious how this all works.

And Cia, I did hear the same about almost all hosptial admissions were from unvaccinated people. And don’t quote me here, but I believe I saw a headline that a vaccinated person has died from the new Delta variant. So I believe that we will need to get booster shots over time with these new variants popping up, but I’m glad I’m on the right track for protection from the most common strain.

And Redneck, sorry to hear about your friends who have gotten it or died. If this affected something like your foot or hair, I might not be as quick to get it, but I don’t mess around with lung and eye stuff. You only have one set of those and you mess up either, your life is going to be a struggle! Always wear eye protection guys.

 

My understanding is around two weeks after the first shot, your immunity really picks up.  I’ve seen numbers from 50%- 80% reduced risk of infection two weeks after first shot.  I remember watching the days tick off the calendar until 2 weeks had gone by.   I felt a lot safer at that point.

 

Thanks friend! That is promising

 

I looked it up because of my daughter getting it on Wed. I read that the protection is fairly good by ten days after the first dose, already usually good enough to prevent hospitalization or death. But not as good as it will be two weeks after the second dose, and even then, immunity will continue to build. 

We never know enough about what factors may have contributed to death, when it occurs. It may have been just one of those things, or the person could have been immunocompromised in a way which prevented them from responding to the vaccine as most people do. And even the Pfizer vaccine has a lower level of effectiveness against the Delta variant, although it has more than the others. It should, however, certainly prevent death in a person with a healthy immune system by two weeks after the second dose.

If I were you, I’d double mask, stay home, and observe the other measures until you were fully protected. As others have said I feel a great sense of relief now that it’s been weeks since my second dose. We’ll see, but I think it’s very likely that we won’t need boosters after the mRNA doses. The protection they give is very broad and long-lasting, and extends to the cellular immune system (T- and B- cells), rather than only the humoral (antibodies).

 

Thanks for your response. Glad I did end up getting the mRNA one then. 

 

It’s reassuring to hear mRNA vaccines give protection beyond just the antibodies, but I disagree on there not being any booster shots. With all the false/conspiratorial info out there causing so much misinformation among people (the prion thing I posted, the vaccine somehow reducing life expectancy and leading to whoever gets vaccinated to die in a few years, the spike protein being toxic), it’ll no doubt lead to stronger/more transmissible variants after the Delta variant. Kinda like that measles outbreak in 2019. So I think there might be more booster shots down the road, or maybe it’ll become a yearly thing like the flu shot, who knows anymore?

By the way, checking my local pharmacy, turns out I can start getting vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine on 6/21 with the second dose being around 7/12. Even though I don’t go out much or go to that many crowded places, I still think I should schedule an appointment and walk down there to get vaccinated.

 

I agree.  I think boosters will be needed because of new variants that will come along.  And the only reason new variants are assured is because so many people refuse to get vaccinated.  Almost 100% of all new hospitalizations are unvaccinated people.  To a virus, unvaccinated people people are how it spreads and as it spreads it mutates. The vast majority of these mutations do nothing to make it a better virus but every so often, wham, just like the Delta variant, it now has become more harmful.

If everyone that could were vaccinated, this Delta variant wouldn’t even be a news story in the US.

 

Just FYI, while it appears from early studies that two doses of Pfizer/Moderna has only slightly diminished efficacy against the Delta variant (point estimate of ~88% as compared to the 95% against other strains), after only one dose the efficacy seems to be considerably lower (estimates ranging from ~15%-35%). As the Delta variant becomes more prominent, it is important that we recalibrate how we think about the risk of having a single dose. Especially considering that those people should in my estimation be relatively more likely to generate potential vaccine evading strains. 

I am a PhD synthetic biologist who works in an adjacent space so would be happy to chat about any of the underlying biology if you want. 

 

So getting two doses of the normal Pfizer vaccine will protect me about 88% against the Delta variant?

 

That is what the evidence suggests. See this preprint from the UK (whose cases are almost all Delta strain now). 

“With BNT162b2 there was a small reduction in effectiveness post dose 2 from 93.4% (95%CI: 90.4 to 95.5) with B.1.1.7 to 87.9% (95%CI:78.2 to 93.2)”

BNT162b2 = Pfizer vaccine. 

Note the wide confidence intervals on the delta strain numbers  78.2 to 93.2 as opposed to the much tighter interval on the alpha variant (B.1.1.7).

I want to stress that it is normal for our understanding to change over time and that other factors (e.g. testing frequency, climate, number of cases in a country) can also cause genuine fluctuations in this number. 

Despite the relative uncertainty around the precise number, lower protection from the delta variant even after dose two does makes sense based on the reduced protection we see after dose 1, as well as  based on what we see in in vitro tests of sera binding affinity from vaccinated individuals. 

 

Even if it didn’t protect you completely from a symptomatic case, the protection it gives from a serious case or death is nearly 100%.

 

This is correct. 

 

Reading through all of the discussion replies, I’m seeing a lot of good info. Especially the link to that book and the technical info dump on how mRNA vaccines work. Thank you all! 🙂
With that said though, I still have this… this gut feeling about the whole thing. I trust the science behind it all, and I don’t believe in conspiratorial nonsense like what I linked in my post or things like the government being involved. I only go out when needed (which is mostly stores and similar places when I can’t order online from them), do social distancing, wear my mask (maybe I’ll double mask from now on), wash my hands, so on and so forth. But my gut feeling in regards to vaccination hasn’t gone away, and maybe it’s worse now since the CDC took over a month to deem the Delta variant a ‘variant of concern’ (I know they’re probably mostly a political organization but still). I wanna break away from the gut feeling, but it’s really hard… It’s like there’s a sea of “back-and-forth”-ness around me to be completely honest.
Nevertheless, I’ll absolutely still be here, learning/reading as much as I can about the current situation just like I’ve been doing since January-February 2020. 🙂

 

I saw this this afternoon.

https://www.deconstructingconventional.com/post/how-to-overcome-the-pressure-to-get-a-covid-vaccine

i don’t agree with most of it, but after #2, there’s a video with a newscaster in blue at the beginning that I think is worth watching, showing some of the people who have had severe reactions to all of the Covid vaccines used here. I don’t think it’s political, you can see that they’re real people that this happened to. 

 

I don’t think you should shadow ban my comment. Informed consent means that everyone who takes the vaccine should know that the risk of vaccine reaction is real and has taken or ruined many lives. I knew and still took both doses and my daughter has had the first. My fully-informed choice. As Margit said in January, she was nervous about the vaccine’s possibly causing MS (as occurred to me from a reaction to a tetanus booster). Several of the reactions in the video I referred to were very similar to MS. That’s just the way it is. Like a war in which some soldiers die. But if you hide the faces of those who reacted severely, you assume responsibility for those who take the vaccine’s not being fully informed and for the results if they react.

 

I needed a bit of time to check it wasn’t too off-base given the sensitive topic. 

 

Thank you. I would have put up only the link to the video, but it wasn’t on YouTube or anywhere that I could just take a link. As I said, I don’t agree with most of what the article said, but adults should be able to process what they encounter. Also true that many millions have taken the vaccine without serious reaction, only protection from Covid. Also true that we should remember the millions who have suffered and died or been disabled by Covid. I support those who have taken the vaccine. But in a discussion in which some have expressed fears about its safety, I think everyone should see what could happen and has happened to many. If they decide to take it, it should be by well-informed consent freely given. Most people will still give it.

 

RE your MS comment:

I think it is important to note that MS is an immune mediated disease, so of course any symptoms of MS will appear similar to vaccine side effects. Since you stated that your MS was caused be a tetanus vaccine, I think it is important that I give some context about MS, the tetanus vaccine and vaccines in general.

1. Getting the tetanus shot is actually associated with lower rates of MS. You can see this meta analysis in the peer reviewed journal Neurology (impact factor 8). I do however want to make it clear that this does not mean that you are lying, or even wrong about the tetanus shot “causing” your MS. Although MS has a substantial genetic component, it is typically triggered through some sort of immune/inflammatory event. Typically this is a viral infection (most often a virus that infects or stays latent inside neurons for obvious reasons), but in theory an event such as vaccination could lead to the onset of MS. What this meta analysis shows is that the even considering the extremely small chance of the tetanus vaccine in particular leading to the onset of MS, on net it actually appears to slightly lower the risk of MS (through somewhat unclear pathways, although there are a number of workable hypotheses).

2. There is no evidence for thinking that the two approved mRNA vaccines lead to increased risk of MS. At this point hundreds of millions of people have been dosed and no negative safety signal has been found. (Note that this is the kind of thing they look for, as failed vaccine candidates in the past have failed by leading to elevated rates of MS or other immune disorder). Indeed the J&J vaccine trial got paused for a bit because of this very type of concern (they just got unlucky and had 1 or 2 people out of 20,000 coincidentally develop immune disorders right around the time they were dosed, we know this was chance because now that they have given the vaccine to 100x more people they haven’t seen anything deviating from the normal MS rate).

You can of course make the statement that we don’t know whether or not the vaccine might cause increased likelihood of MS farther down the line. While that statement is true, it is also true with respect to literally any condition. Maybe the vaccine leads to an increased risk of stroke when you are 85, maybe it decreases it. Based on our understanding of the biology of MS, and from experience with previous successful and failed vaccines, we can assert there is little to no likelihood that MS is likely to be caused later down the line by the vaccines. That is not to say that it is impossible! Just that the evidence for it is at the same level as we would give to any long term positive or negative effect.

Sorry for the long post, let me know if something is unclear (or wrong!!) or if you want sources for something I said.

 

I had both arms paralyzed for several days starting the day I got the tetanus booster at the university clinic before I went to Mexico for the first time, brachial plexus neuropathy. My father was paralyzed for the last three years of his life by a flu vaccine. 

In the video showing injuries from the Covid vaccine, several women experienced paralysis, probably temporary as it usually is with MS. One had her right arm and leg paralyzed and was tested for a stroke. Years ago, I had an attack which paralyzed my left arm and leg for almost a month. I was hospitalized, and I was tested for stroke as it had come on fairly quickly.

It’s all evidence which people should evaluate and decide for themselves. I am very well-informed as to both sides, and it is still difficult for me to judge. I got both doses of Pfizer after a lot of agonizing. My daughter got the first dose last Wednesday, and now I’m agonizing again. She was sweating and lethargic on Saturday, three days post-vaccine, no fever, but I was wondering if it were a reaction and if she should get the second dose. We have a history of disabling vaccine reactions. I’m pretty sure I’ll take her to get it, but it is a difficult decision. 

 

I appreciate your detailed reply. Yes, there is a genetic susceptibility to having different disabling conditions triggered. But if the triggering event does not occur, the condition does not develop. Genes load the gun etc. Vaccination itself causes inflammation, to provoke the immune system into producing the desired antibodies. It can be acute or chronic. I won’t go any further into that here.

 

I will note that infection with a virus is also a potentially triggering event. That said, if you believe you have a solid reason to consider your risk of vaccine related condition to be higher than average, then you’d be foolish to not take it into account. The data I referred to earlier could also be consistent with a small subset of people being at substantially increased risk of a side effect compared to others (i.e. Simpson’s paradox). No idea if the authors actually attempt to correct for this, I’d imagine it would be quite difficult to do so given the low frequency of this. Also yeah, these mRNA vaccines are quite “hot”, which is unfortunate from a lot of perspectives, but understandable from the perspective of the makers. Better to aim slightly high… (indeed looking at curevac and a few of the other failures, a lot of them seem to have been too tolerogenic). 

If you think your family has an increased likelihood of these events, you might find it an intriguing idea to get your genome sequenced (recommend nebula genomics). Perhaps in the future we’ll actually be able to figure out any such risks in rare populations in advance of delivery. 

 

Viruses can definitely trigger very severe chronic conditions. I could go into a lot of detail on that, but won’t. One situation was when my two nephews both got severe bronchitis with high fever (another trigger). The one who had Asperger’s (from a vaccine reaction in infancy) had severe inflammatory bowel disease when he recovered. His typical brother made a complete recovery. Very similar post-viral, post vaccine damage syndromes have happened to me, my daughter, my brother, and my mother. Separate from the vaccine damage. Thank you for your suggestions for genetic testing! I’ve been reading a lot about current issues. I agree that the mRNA vaccines are stunningly effective, but are “hotter” than many vaccines. Many have died from them. Larger numbers have been saved by them, but both statements are true. I saw today that highly vaxxed Israel and the UK are not seeing deaths increase from the Delta variant, while largely unvaxxed Russia and Indonesia are. I read in the Atlantic about how promising Novavax was, a recombinant, protein fragment vaccine, similar to the hep-B vaccine, which has been one of the most dangerous vaccines. My newborn, like many others, reacted to it with vaccine encephalitis and autism. I think they should not give under threes the Covid vaccine. Those in the early stages of neurological development are at high risk of encephalitic vaccine reactions, which we may see if they authorize the mRNA vaccines for infants and toddlers.

 

It is not true that many have died from mRNA vaccines. The immunogenicity of mRNA based vaccines is not innate to them and can be tuned significantly. (See CureVac, who also used an mRNA vaccine, as well as moderna’s cancer vaccine efforts). There is no evidence of aspergers or autism spectrum disorders from vaccines, and there strikes me as little to no biological basis for such a reaction. 

 

All vaccines cause inflammation to cause the production of antibodies. It is common for the inflammation to affect the brain and cause neurological disorders. Vaccine encephalitis is a thing, and much more common than is recognized. In infants the most common symptoms are screaming syndrome, constant, inconsolable screaming for four hours or longer. I screamed like this for several days after my first DPT at three months old for several days and it caused Asperger’s in me. My daughter screamed like this for four days and nights, sixteen hours a day, reacting to the hep-B vaccine st birth, given without my knowledge or permission. I had said I didn’t want her to get it, as I had read it often caused autism. And it did.

you seem to be knowledgeable enough to be familiar with vaccine encephalitis. When it affects mainly the language center of the brain, as many strokes do, we call it autism. Asperger’s may result from less severe brain inflammation, often for a shorter length of time. Several witnesses testified on the hep-B vaccine in infants causing encephalitis, autism, or death, at the congressional hearing in May 1999, a year before my daughter was born. Also see Judy Converse, one of the witnesses: she wrote a book: When Your Doctor is Wrong: The Hepatitis-B Vaccine and Autism.

The reason so many have refused and continue to refuse the Covid vaccine (mistakenly for the most part, in my opinion: I got both doses of Pfizer even cognizant of the risk), is because at this point everyone realizes, at least on some level, that vaccines cause autism. And that most medical authorities for the past thirty years have not told the truth about it, either through commonly-held delusion or conscious lies. So many do not believe what authorities say now about vaccines. The Covid vaccine HAS caused many deaths, as you can see from temporal spikes in reports of deaths which revert to baseline shortly after getting the vaccine. Heart attacks, platelet disorders, deep vein thrombosis, cytokine cascades, and others. I still think it is good to take the vaccine, Covid being for most even more dangerous. But both are realities.

 

The other main symptom of vaccine encephalitis in infants (and others) is extreme lethargy, somnolence, and a diminished level of consciousness, but it is hard to identify these symptoms as being a medical emergency in a baby. Even if a hospital recognized them as such, which it probably wouldn’t, there is little effective treatment available. Maybe (dangerous) steroids to reduce swelling.

 

This discusses VAERS death reports from a month ago.

Latest VAERS Data Show: 5,165 Deaths Reported Following COVID Vaccines

Not all such reports are accurate, though most are reported with sincere belief, and I think most are true vaccine reactions. Only a small fraction of vaccine reactions, even fatal ones, are reported to VAERS, the official FDA and CDC channel for reaction reports by doctors or individuals. Everyone can access them and review the details. The CDC became concerned enough by reports of endocarditis shortly after the vaccine in young men that they scheduled a meeting to discuss it. The first rotavirus vaccine and the oral Sabin polio vaccine were taken off the market in developed countries based on reports made to VAERS. If you don’t believe a woman who reports her husband dying of a heart attack twelve hours after the vaccine, who are you going to believe? Of course that in itself is not proof, but it is evidence when many more than usual die of the same thing in the same timeframe. Nothing provides ironclad proof.

 

You said you would be willing to answer questions about the vaccine, in this case, the mRNA ones. Are they sterilizing? Meaning they completely prevent covid infection in the vaccinated person? Even usually? I thought I had read that they were, but can’t find that information now. I found an article about an Israeli study not yet published at that time (Feb ‘21) which found that it might prevent infection and not just symptomatic cases. Could you help me? Thank you!

 

Hi Cia. I know I’m not the person you were looking for an answer from but I thought I could jump in with what very little I know. From what I’ve heard from my doctor and other articles and such online the vaccines won’t completely prevent covid infection but they do a pretty darn good job. I think the US’s mRNA ones are 95% effective against preventing infection. There are plenty of people who have been fully vaccinated that get covid still, but the vaccine does make the reaction to covid less severe and pretty much makes your chance of hospitalization and death near 0 or some really low percentage. Then there are the new and upcoming variants like the Delta variant. The mRNA seems to be giving you some protection against some of these variants but not 95% like the original covid strain.

That’s pretty much all I know.

 

Thank you. We got the Pfizer vaccine and I’m confident in it. I’d like to find out about the sterilizing aspect, though. I found a BBC article that thought it likely did, but it’s harder than I realized to determine. I’d like to know if that might be a characteristic of the mRNA technology. I think its being fairly effective against the variants, including Delta, is because it provides non-specific cellular immunity as well as antibodies, also impressive.

 

No vaccine completely prevents infection except for maybe smallpox.  People who get vaccinated will get Covid, they will be sickened by Covid, and they will die of Covid, they will just do it in vanishingly small numbers compared to the unvaccinated population.  A vaccinated person getting infected is not a gotcha moment.  

 

Oh, the vaccines absolutely do not cause sterility and those false assertions are based on a question someone had about the spike protein and placenta (?), not actual evidence.  There is actual evidence Covid causes male sterility iirc.  

 

Dr Jen Gunter has written a few blog posts on covid.

https://vajenda.substack.com/

 

Way back in January 2020 as I heard about this virus (seems like an age ago now) I started researching the internet simply because I do not have confidence in MSM to be other than parrots for each other.

By using various key words a guy called Dr Chris Martenson (Peak Prosperity) kept cropping up…… so I looked at his videos on the tube and he was predicting pandemic action very early on……..

The things the FLCCC were recommending in Oct 2020 he was recommending in February for Prophylaxis and Early outpatient protocol…… and he put it into laymans terms!

It is the regime that I use in every day life now…. and for me…… the best advice…………….

Another source of advice I found useful was that of farmers in the US…… who often have traditional well tested treatments for many things…. Some who are part of prepping organizations that often share their mothers remedies and bug out bags that they swear by.

In both of these cases a particular drug came up ( and taking note of topic notes from Gideon) which I shall not mention by name that has been used for 40 years in safety came up time and time again.

I have had to take the Pfizer drug because …locally…..we are compelled to take it if we want mobility but had many reservations simply because the way MRNA drugs work.

I really understand the worries people have because this is new ground breaking technology and the reasons we distrust is because the system does often lie to us.

My advice would be is take the vaccine unless you are adolescent (and if you want global mobility)  and use the FLCCC recommendations in everything else (especially a bug out bag addition).

Fact is we have to get used to it………… like all the other viruses that will be here for ever ……….even if they do have less effect as time progresses……

 

I discovered Peak Prosperity and Chris Martenson’s excellent almost daily talks on Covid in March 2020, at the same time I discovered The Prepared, both wonderful sources of information on Covid and many other topics! Chris took a hiatus but recently started another series on YouTube, usually on Covid. I followed his and Pierre Kiry’s recommended regimen for a year: D3, zinc, quercetin, melatonin, and would have followed the recommendations for hospitalization if it had been necessary. I got the two doses of Pfizer in May and stopped taking them. It takes a certain amount of discipline and buying the supplements regularly. I’m actually relieved to have gotten the vaccine and not have to worry about it anymore.

I think the goal should be eradication. It’s a terrible, bioengineered virus, with several methods of infiltrating human cells and it can attack many different organs and systems, doing severe or fatal damage, often causing autoimmune long Covid for very long periods of time, many a year and a half and counting. I think it could be eradicated. Two of the serotypes of polio were eradicated by means of almost every person in the world being vaccinated, and I think the last one will be eradicated soon: it survives in only a few places. That should be our goal with Covid.